John Quincy Adams Digital Diary

15. VII: At the Office, I had visitors, Mr John Grahm, who came to make some enquiries of preparations, for his Mission as Minister Plenipotentiary at Rio Janeiro, to which he has been appointed. A question has arisen who is to go as his 35Secretary of Legation— John James Appleton, is one of the applicants, and a Dr Everitt of Virginia, has been mentioned to the President as a proper person. The appointment has accordingly been offered to him, but Mr Graham doubts whether he will accept it— Mr Curson brought me a Letter of introduction from Mr James Lloyd of Boston. He was the supercargo of a Vessel sent by Lloyd and the Perkins’s several years since to Lima, under a licence from the king of Spain, but the ship was seized and confiscated by the Vice-Roy of Peru; and although restitution has since been decreed by the Spanish Government, nothing has ever been obtained, and this is now one of the heavy claims the adjustment of which is to be provided for in the Treaty with Spain. Curson is going on immediately to South Carolina. Mr De Neuville the French Minister came, and reported to me the substance of his interviews with Mr Onis, relative to the Counter-project for a Treaty which I sent to Onis the day before yesterday— He desires some further explanation with regard to my throwing into one, the second Article of his project, and to the additional clause to it proposed by me. Without knowing what particular explanations were desired I gave Mr De Neuville the reasons for making one Article of the two, and for the addition proposed. There were in this Article and in many others of the project sentimental professions of friendship and affection between the United States and the king of Spain, to say the least entirely superfluous, and which I therefore struck out— But the boundaries of the Florida’s as his project proposed to describe them could not be admitted by us, without giving up the ground for which we had always contended that West-Florida to the Perdido, belonged to Louisiana. It was unnecessary for the contracting parties to say any thing of their motives—unnecessary to say any thing directly contrary to their past pretensions; and one of the most important principles in drawing up public compacts was brevity— As few words as possible to express with precision the agreement— The additional clause was intended merely to secure the delivery to the Officers or Commissioners of the United States of the Archives and Documents of the ceded Provinces— This explanation Mr De Neuville supposed would be sufficient— A more formidable objection was made by Mr Onis to my third Article, containing the Boundary line Westward of the Mississippi. After a long and violent struggle he had agreed to take Longitude 100 from the red river to the Arkansaw, and Latitude 42 from the source of the Arkansaw to the South Sea. But he insisted upon having the middle of all the rivers for the boundary and not as I proposed, the westward Southern Banks; and he also insisted upon the free Navigation of the rivers to be common to both Nations. De Neuville urged these demands with great earnestness and thought it was a point of honour which Onis could not abandon without humiliation. I told him that I could see no humiliation in it. We were to agree upon a boundary; for which purpose the bank of a river was more simple and less liable to occasion future controversy than the middle of the river. It was extremely difficult to ascertain where the middle of a river throughout its course was. It would take a century to settle the middle of the Sabine, red and Arkansaw Rivers, and to which of the parties every island in them would belong. But by taking the Banks for the boundary and declaring the rivers and all their islands to belong to the United States, there could be no question herafter between the parties to arise from this arrangement— It was of no importance to Spain, who never would have any settlements upon these rivers—but the United States would have extensive settlements upon them, within a very few years. Then the Islands in the rivers would be occupied, and questions of title and controversies with Spain. My principle had been to cut up all this by the Roots, which would be done by taking the Banks of the rivers for the boundary— There were I told him several examples of it in the boundaries between the States of this Union, and we were now engaged in a long, tedious, and expensive Negotiation, with Great-Britain to settle a boundary, all the difficulties of which arise from having assumed a middle of rivers, and lakes for the line. De Neuville acknowledged that this view of the subject took away all ground of objection upon the point of honour and said he would endeavour to convince Onis of it, but if the Banks of the rivers were to form the boundaries, the Spanish settlers must at least have the use of the Waters, and the Navigation of the rivers to the Sea. I told him that such a stipulation if made would be merely nominal, as there was not the remotest probability of there ever being any Spanish settlers there— I could not promise the acceptance of any variation from the project, I had now sent to Mr Onis— All I could say was, that if he would agree to take the Banks of the rivers for the boundary, I would 36refer to the President for his consideration the question with regard to the use of the Waters and the Navigation of the rivers to the Sea— Mr Onis agrees to the 4th. 5th. and 6th. Articles of my Counter-project, and to the 7th. which provides for the delivery of the places in Florida, to the Officers of the United States within six Months after the exchange of the Ratifications; and for the evacuation by the Spanish troops— But Mr Onis asks that the United States should furnish transports and the necessary escort for conveying them to the Havanna— I told Mr De Neuville, that while Mr Onis was so punctilious upon the point of honour this was a proposal that I should not have expected from him; but as he did think proper to make it, I would refer it to the President, and did not expect that it would be refused— Mr Onis insists upon the 9th. Article of his project as drawn up by him; which confirms as valid all grants of Land in Florida made before the 24th. of January 1818. and annuls all grants made since then for non performance of the Conditions—my proposed amendment was to confirm of the grants prior to 1818 only those, the conditions of which have been performed— Onis rejects this, and says the reason assigned for annulling the grants subsequent to 24. January 1818 is only to save the honour of the Spanish crown— I now discussed this subject with De Neuville, much at large; and told him it was impossible for us to confirm by the Treaty grants which without the Treaty would be null and void— We did not intend neither could the king of Spain desire that we should make the Treaty an engine for fraud; to sanction titles which the king of Spain himself does not acknowledge, and which would strip the United States of the whole fund from which the sums we assume to pay for indemnities to our own citizens must be paid— He said there might be many honest, bona fide grantees partly settled upon their lands, but who in the full confidence that they would never be dispossessed, had been prevented from performing all the conditions of their grants or had neglected them— And as they would never have been molested by the king of Spain, it would be very hard upon them if the Treaty should turn them out of their Estates— I told him we should have no such intention or desire— Bona fide holders of land for settlement, in actual possession would be doubtless suffered to hold their lands, as they would have held them under the Spanish Government— But we could not cripple our own resources, and at the same time sanction fraud— All therefore that I could consent to refer again to the President was, that grants prior to 24. January 1818, should be binding upon the United States to the same extent that they would be upon the king of Spain if the territory had remained subject to Spain— If there was an invincible objection on the part of Spain to have this principle established by an Article in the Treaty, we might perhaps take the Article drawn by Mr Onis, delivering at the signature of the Treaty a declaration to be made public, to the same effect— So that there might be no misunderstanding of our intentions. De Neuville declared himself satisfied upon this point.— In the renunciation of claims in the ninth Article 15 [symbols] Onis proposes to add those for seizures in the Territories of Spain and her Colonies to be added to those at Sea, and in the Ports. The object of this addition De Neuville said was to include the claims of Chouteau, Demun, and others in the Missouri Territory for seizures of their property, in a trading speculation by the Vice-Roy of Mexico— De Mun is of French origin and has a brother living with De Neuville, and attached to his Legation— Onis asks further that to the mutual renunciation of claims for indemnities, arising from the late military transactions in Florida, should be added a clause that satisfaction shall be made by the United States for any damages suffered by individual inhabitants and Spanish Officers in Florida, by the late operations of the American army. I observed there had been formal stipulations that private property should be respected, and there was no reason to suppose they had been violated— I could not perceive therefore the necessity for such a clause. He replied that there were some such complaints, and there might be others— Mr Onis thought himself bound while agreeing to the cession of the Territory, to secure protection to the lawful interests of the inhabitants who were Spanish subjects— That they should obtain justice for individual injuries, as if they were citizens of the United States— I took the clause for reference to the President— Onis agrees to the 10th Article, annulling the Convention of August 1802— In the eleventh he insists upon omitting the limitation of the sum to be assumed by the United States for payment of the claims of their Citizens upon Spain, to five Millions of Dollars. This was one of the points most strongly debated between us; I insisted that as this Article particularly regarded the U.S. themselves, and we agreed to give a full discharge to Spain, she could have no right to ask the omission of the limitation; and if there should be no limitation of the sum, besides the uncertainty under which we should be, of what we should 37have engaged to perform, there would be great alarm here among the public, and exaggerated representations of the claims assumed, which might even endanger the ratification of the Treaty by the Senate. He said Onis was exceedingly anxious upon this Article; and fearful that he would be blamed in Spain for having sold the Florida’s for five Millions of dollars. He said there were difficulties to get over in the king’s Council at Madrid, as well as in the Senate of the United States. There was an influence of Priests in the Council, which was always counteracting the policy of the Ministers; and which produced the most extraordinary inconsistencies and absurdities in the proceedings of that body. The Minister was never sure of any thing. One day he would obtain a solemn resolution of the Council, and give instructions to a Minister abroad accordingly; and the next day, by some manoeuvre of the king’s Confessor, or some Grandee of Spain, of the royal household the Resolution would be annulled by another contradictory to it. He had seen a succession of Instructions to Onis, marked by these successive and contradictory Resolutions of the royal Council. Nothing could be more ridiculous and disgusting. But these Priests who had no measures of their own to propose, and were never responsible for any thing, were always setting up the honour and dignity of Spain—the glory of the Monarchy, and talking as in the time of Charles the fifth. Now if the limitation of five Millions should be in the Treaty it might give them a handle to say that the interest and honour of Spain were both sacrificed by the bargain— I rejoined that it was notorious that the Florida’s had always been a burden instead of a benefit to Spain— That so far as her interest was concerned, to obtain five Millions of Dollars for them would be a bargain for Onis to boast of instead of being ashamed. As a mere pecuniary bargain it would be a hard one to us. That as to the Priests, if Onis signed the Treaty without transcending his powers, it would be too late, when it should reach Madrid, for them to resist its ratification— And he himself had told me that he had unlimited powers— That he could if he chose cede to the United States the kingdom of Mexico, without transcending them— However, I would take for reference to the President the proposition to leave out the limitation, to which for my own part, I should not have much objection— Mr Onis agrees to omit the 13th. and 14th. Articles of his project. He insists upon the 16th. which De Neuville thinks is very indecent, and he has no doubt will be disapproved by the Spanish Government— But he admits we cannot with propriety reject it and as to Spain’s redemanding the indemnity from France; let her come when she will said De Neuville; we have an answer ready for her— Onis clings likewise to his 17th. Article, the privilege for twelve years to Spanish vessels in all the Ports of the ceded territories, and the treatment of the most favoured Nation forever afterwards— I told De Neuville we could not agree to it. As to the latter clause he knew we were now in controversy with him on the effect of a similar stipulation in the Louisiana Convention, and the other part of the Article would admit Spanish vessels, as priviledged to the Port of Mobile and the parts of Florida, which we claim as our own, and of which we have been for years in possession— He then said if we could not grant the whole of the Article, we might at least grant it in part— It would probably never be of much use to Spain; but having the, appearance of a commercial privilege it might help to reconcile the Nation to the cession, we might omit the last clause and confine the remainder to the places of which possession is yet to be given to us— I consented to take for reference to the President, the question of the twelve years privilege, limited to the Ports of Pensacola and St. Augustine— After going through this discussion of all the Articles of the Treaty De Neuville promised to see Mr Onis again, to report to him my observations, and to-morrow will let me know the result. We had company to dine with us— Genl. Brown, Major Biddle, Mr Storrow, and Messrs: D. Brent; P. Barbour, Garnett, M. Morton, Sanford, Alr Smyth, Todd and Trumbull— Invitations had been sent to Coll. Jones, Coll Wool and Lieutt. Harrison of General Brown’s suite, to General Macomb and Captain Root, and to Messrs. Bryan, Leak, Newton, Sawyer, Walker of Kentucky and Williams of Mississippi, all of whom sent excuses or failed to come; our party was therefore quite small. They left us early after dinner; and we went to a Ball at Mr Bagots— The roads were excessively bad; almost impassable— Mr De Neuville’s Carriage overset as he was going home almost in front of Mr Bagot’s door— Holmes and a party of members of Congress overset in a Slough opposite the Treasury Department Office— It was Midnight when we came home; and not without difficulty that we reached the house, with our horses one of which in heavy roads is addicted to balking.