John Quincy Adams Digital Diary

27. I called upon Baron Campenhausen this morning according to his appointment, and had a conversation with him of nearly two hours; which began upon the subject of the American vessels, whose admission has not yet been ordered, but which soon extended over the whole field of European Politicks— As to the vessels he made me many apologies, all very lame, for not having finished the business before, which he hinted to me was not owing to him but to some other person— He made me as many promises that the business should be finished in a very few days; which promises being precisely the same as those that he has made me more than ten times for these three months I am at no loss to estimate how much they are worth— He has a manner of talking which I have learnt to understand, and which by the help of a translation conveys his meaning clearly enough— It is to promise and to apologize in vague and general terms; with obscure hints to excite the idea of difficulties in other quarters which proceed altogether from himself— “I was for taking these cases separately from all the rest—and it is very strange— it is a great mortification to me that they have been so long delayed— I cannot conceive why they could not have been decided by themselves.— But then on the other hand, they say cases under similar Circumstances not American ought to be treated in the same manner— And then the false papers—and then the sort of ménagement . . . and then the caution that was to be observed to shew that there was no change of system; and then all the clamour about this great convoy from Gothenburg—and then all these things put together—and the different opinions—and the different interests. . . But as for every thing that 216depends upon me that has been done; and I will see if I cannot have the matter brought on from another quarter— I urged to him that the vessels had now been kept nearly four months without a decision; that the Emperor himself and Count Romanzoff continually had assured me of the determination of this Government to favour the American Commerce, and I had made it an invariable principle to meddle with no other— That I considered it my duty to respect the Laws of the Country; but it was also my duty to maintain the rights of my Country, and the lawful Commerce of my Countrymen. That I knew the French Ambassador had interfered against us in these cases, and before the admission of the greatest number of these vessels, I had supposed that political considerations might have some influence in the business— But now, after the principal step had been taken— “Between ourselves,[”] said he, [“]I can tell you that that difficulty is entirely subdued—there is no question of that kind left.[”]— I mentioned to him the case of the Eliza, at Archangel, belonging to Mr: Thorndike, and concerning which Mr: Dana made application to me— She actually came directly from the Island of Teneriff; and part of her Cargo has been sentenced to be confiscated by the Commission of neutral Navigation, because some of her papers bore the same signatures, with those which had been found to be false on board the vessels which were condemned last Summer, and which were English vessels, from English Ports, but pretended to have cleared from Teneriffe— I said I had not seen the Papers; but that from my personal knowledge of the owner, and of his agent, now here, and from the solemn assurances which I had received from him, I had no doubt but that the vessel came from Teneriff; that she had not been in England, and that the Cargo was entirely American property— The Baron said that he did not know why the Commission at Archangel, had felt itself bound by the decisions of the Commission here, in cases the Circumstances of which if similar in one or two particulars were different in many others— The Teneriffe vessels condemned here, had Cargoes, not at-all suited to the place from which they pretended to come— There were declarations of the Sailors, that they came from elsewhere— Some of their papers had signatures which were known to be false—those which were produced in the case of the Eliza, were indeed the same, as two of those which had been suspected in the papers of the condemned vessels, but that was only one of a variety of grounds upon which the condemnation had ensued— He took a minute of this case, and said he would see what he could do about it.— I asked him whether it would be expedient for me to write a Note to Count Romanzoff on the subject, and he said he thought it would. There was the case of the Rapid too, about which Mr: Stieglitz was talking with the Baron, when I went in— He said that if in the course of two or three days, the Commission should not get through, and admit the remainder of that Cargo, he would thank me to send him a short note with a statement of the case, and he would see to it— I told him it was a great hardship that genuine Americans should be put to so much embarrassment to defend themselves against the charge of producing false Papers— That men of honour and integrity found both their reputation and their property jeopardized by such proceedings— I then referred him to the Declaration of the French Government concerning the Certificates of Origin of the French Consuls in the United States; which Declaration I had repeatedly assured him was altogether contrary to the fact— I could now shew him documents to prove my assertions; upon which I shewed him the Copy of Mr: Geraud’s Certificate which I received from Mr: Joy, and the original certificate itself of the whole Cargo of the Brig Syren Captn: Howland, given by Louis Felix, the French Consul at New-York, and dated 28. July 1810.— The Baron expressed great astonishment at the sight of these Papers; the first of which I told him I had shewn to the Ambassador— He asked me what the Ambassador had said to it— I told him that he had shrugged his shoulders and acknowledged that he knew not what to say— The Ambassador had no more doubt than I had that those were authentic papers— But he had orders to declare the contrary, and what was it for him to say?— The Baron then put me many questions respecting the present State of our affairs with France, and the conduct of France towards the United States— He enquired why the measures on both sides had been calculated upon the dates of 2. Novr: and 2. Feby: which I explained to him from the Law of Congress of the last Session— He then entered upon the general consideration of the policy of France, and asked me, if I had read an Article in the last Moniteur, concerning the Continental System— I had not seen the Moniteur; but I had just received the Hamburg Correspondent, and had read the Article in a German translation— The substance of the argument was that although the Continent suffered very much by the Continental System, the Government’s did not lose their revenues, and the People could live through it, but that it must lead to the total ruin of England, because England had a depretiated paper Currency which already lost fifteen or sixteen per Cent in the market— As to the Continental System I said, that would undoubtedly last just as long as the Emperor Napoleon 217should choose to continue his experiment, and as long as such articles as this should appear in the Moniteur— If there was a change of Ministry in England, the orders of Council, which I certainly abhorred as much as the Emperor Napoleon would certainly be revoked, and then he might exult with triumph as much as if his Continental System had extorted the revocation— They would be revoked, because the new Ministry would be composed of men, who from the beginning had pledged themselves against the measure, and who had already made several attempts to obtain their repeal— But it would not be the effect of the Continental system; and if the present ministry should be continued they would undoubtedly adhere to them— I said that when the Moniteur, and the other French political writers argued against the British Orders in Council, they could not miss being right— Those orders were in such utter defiance and contempt of every principle of the law of Nations, that nothing too severe could be said against them, but when the French writers extolled the effects of the Continental System, as counteraction to the Orders in Council, I thought as little of their reasoning, as I confided in their facts— The Moniteur for instance now insisted that England was upon the verge of total ruin, because she had a paper currency that lost 15 or 16 per Cent— It contended that the Continent was in a flourishing Condition because France lost none of her revenues; and because France had nothing but gold and silver— I did believe that a national bankruptcy, partial or total would be inevitable in England— But what of that? France had committed bankruptcy three or four times since her Revolution— And in annexing Holland to the French Empire, she had made her commit a bankruptcy no longer ago than last Summer— France considered it as the simplest operation in the world to reduce a public debt to one third of its amount, and tell the creditors, they must esteem themselves very happy to receive their interest upon that— With what face then could France pretend that England was at the point of dissolution because she had a paper that lost 15 or 16 per Cent— As to France’s losing none of her revenues; and having nothing but gold and silver; that might be true— And it might satisfy her too to consider her own condition as answering for that of the whole Continent— She could throw all the burthens of this state of things upon Austria, upon Prussia, upon Denmark, upon Sweden, upon Russia, and reckon their sufferings for nothing at all; but they suffered never the less for that— As to a depretiated paper, I hoped that was not to be considered as a signal of National Ruin; for if it was the whole Continent, excepting France was in a far more ruinous Condition than England, having paper much more deeply depretiated— The Baron then asked me what I thought of the probability of a Negotiation for Peace; which I told him I had long been of opinion would not take place untill the English have evacuated Spain and Portugal— I considered that as the only question yet remaining to contend about seriously— He said he was afraid that would yet be for a long time undecided— That it did not appear as if they would soon be expelled from Portugal— That if they should be compelled to embark at Lisbon they might immediately afterwards disembark again in some part of Spain— That the war seemed to be raging in almost all the Spanish Provinces, and that the king, Joseph, as well as the king of Naples talked of abdication— I said I did not think this last Circumstance of much consequence as to the negotiation for Peace— Spain was to be under french domination under one shape or another, and it mattered little who was to be its nominal Governor— But the Spanish Colonies were to be forever separated from their Metropolis, and they would not come under french domination— The Emperor Napoleon’s Marriage had manifestly effected a total revolution in his political system— He had formerly been inclined to form a system of federative monarchies, placing his brothers and Sisters at their head— But since he had a prospect of posterity himself, the royalties of all his brothers would probably meet a similar fate to that of the kingdom of Holland— The Baron appeared to coincide in these opinions, but he was not so free as I was to express his opinions upon general opinio politicks— I told him that the Emperor Napoleon very often wanted such a Monition as was once given to Peter the Great— In one of his fits of Passion, he threatened violence against one of his Officers, who simply said, Your Majesty will do as you please, but your History will tell of it; and Peter immediately checked his hand— Napoleon had been in great want of somebody to say to him, your History will tell of it; throughout the whole series of these Spanish transactions, and especially for the Scenes at Bayonne— The Baron said that Talleyrand had undoubtedly rendered him that service, though without success.— After leaving the Baron, I called upon General Pardo, to invite him and his daughter to dine with us next Saturday— I found the General unwell, confined to his chamber, and Miss Pardo, he told me was still more unwell— But they will come if sufficiently recovered— I also called at the French Ambassador’s but he was not at home— I then left my sleigh and walked round the Quay and the line, home— I dined at 218General Watzdorf the Saxon Minister’s—the only company were Counts Schenk and Bussche— Baron’s Schladen & Mülinen Mr: Jouffroy, and Messrs: Smith, Everett and Gray— Count St: Julien came in after dinner— I paid in the Evening a visit at Mr: Krehmer’s, who lives in the upper Story over General Watzdorf— Mr: and Mrs: Bayley were there— Mr: Krehmer apologized to me for not having visited me this Winter— He said he had been labouring under so many embarrassments that he had not had the courage to go out any where from his home— But he hoped now soon to get through them all, and he would call and see me next week— I sincerely wish his hopes may be realized— Remainder of the Evening at home.